#WeCops - Wednesday 25th November 2020 9pm (GMT Standard Time) County Lines, Time for a National Approach?

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This chat is guest hosted by @EmWilliamsOU @JoeCaluori

County lines - time for a national strategy?

 

Since the National Crime Agency's first county lines threat assessment was published in 2015, the police, local authorities, politicians, charities and academics have had to move at great pace to develop an understanding of county lines.  However, despite increased media coverage and a heightened political focus, the county lines phenomenon remains a ‘data desert’, with very little published evidence. As a consequence, public debate on county lines generates a lot of heat but very little light.

 

Crest’s research, funded by the Hadley Trust, seeks to make a contribution to the evidence base by focusing on one significant group of children and young people caught up in county lines: children in care and young people in semi-independent, unregulated accommodation. We believe that by doing so we can make specific recommendations to reduce the exploitation of these vulnerable children and young people and shine a wider light on the evolution of county lines, pointing the way towards keeping all children safer from this model of exploitation.

 

Our research focuses on two police force areas, North Wales and Merseyside. As 20 of the 22 active lines in North Wales run from Merseyside, we are able to ask whether, and how, looked after children are exploited at both ends of the line.

 

We will publish our final report on Monday 30th November, with a set of policy recommendations for the Government. We have also published a series of long-read articles based on our research so far:

 

? The first of these , explains what we know about the impact of COVID-19 on county lines.
? The second focused on semi-independent accommodation and the exploitation of care leavers.
? Our third discussed ‘borderless safeguarding’, asking how local authorities and police forces can work more effectively across their borders to protect young people from exploitation, and describe the barriers and examples of good practice which we have come across.

 

One issue that we have kept returning to during our research is the question of whether a national strategy to tackle CCE and county lines could strengthen the current response, involving the department for education as well as the home office. Could such an approach to county lines ensure that enforcement activity is matched with a commensurate approach to safeguarding that will prevent vulnerable adolescents from being exploited in the future?





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 #WeCops transcript

 
@WeCops
25 November 2020 21:00
Q1 - How have the structures of 'County Lines' changed over time and has violence increased locally? Please use the hashtag #WeCops in all of your replies ?? https://t.co/VEXj3bAMPO
@TheBigHon
25 November 2020 21:01
@WeCops Have they changed? Do we know if any local violence increases are directly linked? (If there are any) #WeCops
@snash6414
25 November 2020 21:02
@WeCops County Lines appear to have evolved over the past few days and are much more organised as a ‘business’. Whilst our knowledge of it increases sadly so does the main dealers and it is fast becoming more and more common #WeCops
@Frankieoffrank
25 November 2020 21:02
@WeCops We have definitely seen an increase in serious violence linked to CL and often linked to the emergence of a new CL team in the area, trying to take over. Very quick escalation which is hard to disrupt #wecops
@EmWilliamsOU
25 November 2020 21:02
@TheBigHon @WeCops Definitely changed methodologies according to some work I have been involved in #wecops
@mark74brown
25 November 2020 21:02
@WeCops The answer is in the words of the question...it has a structure #wecops
@snash6414
25 November 2020 21:03
@WeCops I would also suggest that yes violence has increased - and whilst I can’t put figures to it we know the carrying of weapons and assaults is becoming more and more common. And this is just what we know about. I am sure there is much more undiscovered violence not reported #WeCops
@snash6414
25 November 2020 21:03
@WeCops Clearly I mean years. Not days. Doh! #WeCops
@JoeCaluori
25 November 2020 21:03
@snash6414 @WeCops Does it seem like more local children are involved than was previously the case? #wecops
@kerrimonaghan1
25 November 2020 21:04
@poodart2 @WeCops #wecops
@DetectiveHelen
25 November 2020 21:04
@WeCops We need to be specific about what violence we are referring to in this question - there are many facets of violent crime such as alcohol-fuelled NTE and domestic abuse which are unaffected by the county lines model #wecops
@snash6414
25 November 2020 21:05
@JoeCaluori @WeCops Yes definitely. Maybe it’s our understanding and knowledge of it that has increased too. It is a lot easier to recognise county lines now than perhaps we previously would have sat 5-6 years ago #WeCops
@EmWilliamsOU
25 November 2020 21:05
@snash6414 @WeCops Totally agree - issues present at A and E departments and it is often missed - just one example #wecops
@NCA_LynneOwens
25 November 2020 21:05
@EmWilliamsOU @TheBigHon @WeCops There is a link between the drugs trade & violence (as per assessed intelligence.) Better flagging of county lines links within crime reporting would help our understanding #wecops
@GorillaoJustice
25 November 2020 21:06
@WeCops I’ve noticed a significant amount of under 18’s committing higher levels of violence, there is a greater propensity for using/carrying a weapon than old school “fighting” leading to more life changing injuries. #wecops
@mark74brown
25 November 2020 21:06
@WeCops The violence becomes more intense & prevalent b’cos the stakes become higher the bigger the ‘business’ the more those in charge want to protect their interests...and will do what it takes...maybe recently the Covid effect of ‘debt management’ has exacerbated the violence? #wecops
@EmWilliamsOU
25 November 2020 21:06
@snash6414 @JoeCaluori @WeCops However is the link from the local 'urban' groups or gangs to OCGs and middle markets etc understood effectively #wecops
@DetectiveHelen
25 November 2020 21:06
@WeCops Definately more organised networks and evidence of experienced marketing strategies being used to attract customers #wecops
@westieross
25 November 2020 21:06
@WeCops #WeCops I think the coronavirus pandemic has probably changed the dynamic, e.g. I ha e noted some reports (can’t remember sources, sorry) indicating less use of public transport networks by those dealing due to being more ‘visible’ because of much lower passenger numbers.
@Ben__Forbes
25 November 2020 21:07
@WeCops How do we truly know? Are we, as law enforcement, nationally linking surveillance health data from trauma centres with incidents? Are we then cross matching with intelligence pools to confirm county line involvement/causation? Simple, no we’re not that evolved yet #wecops
@cmgray2019
25 November 2020 21:07
@WeCops It will be interesting to see how the structures change after Covid - all businesses have been affected but no furlough scheme for county lines. . . the vulnerable will be preyed on all the more. #wecops
@EmWilliamsOU
25 November 2020 21:07
@NCA_LynneOwens @TheBigHon @WeCops Is this related to the NCLCC -They are indeed doing some very impressive work on data improvements and analysis #wecops
@PCRotherham
25 November 2020 21:07
@NCA_LynneOwens @EmWilliamsOU @TheBigHon @WeCops Ma'am, How do we better equip front line officers to recognise these flags? #WeCops
@ktbg1
25 November 2020 21:08
@snash6414 @WeCops I was very worried then! #wecops
@DaniTee69
25 November 2020 21:08
@GorillaoJustice @WeCops I would be interested in seeing whether the violence in Cardiff this weekend was related to county lines, 15/16 year olds involved in stabbings, such violence fairly unheard of in Carsiff #wecops
@carmenwhittle
25 November 2020 21:08
@WeCops From a front line perspective I’m not sure we know enough about county lines yet to fully understand the structures. Violence has increased but is this totally down to CL. I also think there is a north south decide which impacts the type and seriousness of violence. #wecops
@NCA_LynneOwens
25 November 2020 21:09
@PCRotherham @EmWilliamsOU @TheBigHon @WeCops Good question. I think the overlap between vulnerability & on the street stops is relevant. A role for central crime reporting too probably #wecops
@mark74brown
25 November 2020 21:09
@DetectiveHelen @WeCops It is literally a ‘business model’...assets, customers, use of technology, recruitment etc...then the venture of a new location to do business and exploit the local populace in both ends of the model ie supplier/consumer #wecops
@BriW74
25 November 2020 21:10
@WeCops It has only been recently that BTP took actually county lines seriously by forming a dedicated proactive task force. For years the mantra from SMT was "There is no drugs on the railway. Not our problem" #wecops
@jonny4pints
25 November 2020 21:10
As one group is removed, it creates a void to be filled in that particular area. We then see battles for supremacy that often unfold on the streets involving serious violence at all times of the day. Things have worsened IMO. More weapons and a determination to use them. #wecops
@ktbg1
25 November 2020 21:10
@WeCops Very agile, particularly during covid, adapting to change very quickly with dealers dressed as delivery drivers and non contact payment for example. Policing needs to be just as agile & adapt our methods to keep up & outwit #wecops
@_amyhurst
25 November 2020 21:11
@westieross @WeCops We heard similar in some action research carried out as part of #TCEProgramme looking at impact of Covid on exploitation https://tce.researchinpractice.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/TCE_actionresearchupdate_FINAL.pdf #WeCops
@TheBigHon
25 November 2020 21:11
@PCRotherham @NCA_LynneOwens @EmWilliamsOU @WeCops Or know to put them on the reports...? #WeCops
@JoeCaluori
25 November 2020 21:11
@NCA_LynneOwens @EmWilliamsOU @TheBigHon @WeCops We've seen evidence that over time county lines in some areas (Medway, Ipswich) have matured into postcode style gangs in county dealing bases - consequently violence may not only be down to oversupply in the drugs market - but also wider gang conflicts? #wecops
@NCA_LynneOwens
25 November 2020 21:11
@EmWilliamsOU @TheBigHon @WeCops Yes - they are doing great stuff .... & the national assessment centre in @NCA_UK. We did a detailed assessment on the link between violence & drug markets but the actual county line link needed more data #wecops
@Emily1kate
25 November 2020 21:11
@carmenwhittle @WeCops #wecops interesting point about the north south divide but I think the violence is the same wherever the cdl individuals go... there may be less of it but the offenders will use the same tactics no matter where they are, I think this is why they are so successful? Potentially
@EmWilliamsOU
25 November 2020 21:12
@BriW74 @WeCops I think BTP are doing really well on this - the use of rail networks is a fundamental part of this and they have really stepped it up.. helps understand local movement too #wecops
@PCRotherham
25 November 2020 21:12
@carmenwhittle @WeCops As a front line officer & someone with experience of supervising front line officers - what would you suggest would be the best way of highlighting county lines to those who are most likely to come across it? #WeCops
@GorillaoJustice
25 November 2020 21:12
@Ben__Forbes @WeCops Ben you may won’t to follow @TV_VRU @OwenTheAnalyst @lewis_mayling @StanGilmour @DetectiveHelen as that’s exactly what we’ve been doing for a while now. Taking a public health approach around our tier 1 trauma centres information sharing and identifying patterns. #wecops
@snash6414
25 November 2020 21:12
@ktbg1 @WeCops Hidden in plain sight. Sometimes the most ‘normal’ looking of things can be a crime in action yet so easily missed. Our intelligence picture can play a big part in our approach to this. Targeted patrols, giving officers the power of knowledge #WeCops
@NCA_LynneOwens
25 November 2020 21:12
@EmWilliamsOU @snash6414 @JoeCaluori @WeCops And to extend that question Emma into upstream supply. We are working on it #wecops
@waterloo313
25 November 2020 21:13
@WeCops Interest in gaps in capabilities and capacity of police resources, skills, tech in being able to evolve & compete with pace,scale & extent of how the issues themselves have evolved - what’s different in that, what power vacuums, opportunities have shifted or stayed same? #Wecops
@NCA_LynneOwens
25 November 2020 21:13
@JoeCaluori @EmWilliamsOU @TheBigHon @WeCops Definitely. Rivalry & competition are definite motivators #wecops
@soave1000
25 November 2020 21:13
@ktbg1 @WeCops They are entrepreneurial who adapt to markets very quickly. Tech offers them opportunities that may help evade law enforcement e.g. cash seizure but the tech leaves a trail #WeCops plus they’re protecting their markets
@jonny4pints
25 November 2020 21:14
It concerns me how the structure has evolved from what initially seemed willing participants, to manipulation and exploitation of the young and vulnerable who are controlled through fear and violence. #wecops
@EmWilliamsOU
25 November 2020 21:14
@NCA_LynneOwens @snash6414 @JoeCaluori @WeCops Great bunch I interviewed some of the guys recently - fantastic work indeed. I was interested in the view of mobilising community officers more in this area and the key part they can play #wecops
@mark74brown
25 November 2020 21:14
@NCA_LynneOwens @EmWilliamsOU @TheBigHon @WeCops Could local force systems (if they don’t already) be inclined to use a ‘flag’ specific to CL direct or associated risk, threat & harm to get referrals & intel etc in line with handing up to the NCA (sorry I’m not working in policing anymore so asking) #wecops
@carmenwhittle
25 November 2020 21:14
@Emily1kate @WeCops Point well made but It would make interesting research, involving all public sectors as we the police don’t always get the full picture #WeCops
@GorillaoJustice
25 November 2020 21:14
@WeCops I’m looking at Data at section 18/20 OAP committed by those under 18 and trying to track a rise of severity versus volume of offences for all assaults. That will give a clearer picture #wecops
@Jen_Norm
25 November 2020 21:14
@WeCops I wonder how the intel is organised and analysed. CL seems a complex issue that crosses borders (at all levels) and also requires v local partnership data to fully understand the extent of the problem and those vulnerable - how is data effectively shared #wecops
@SuptMarshall
25 November 2020 21:14
@WeCops We need more accurate crime recording to properly establish the links between CL and violence. Intelligence would suggest that a very real link exists but we need to get slicker on our recording #wecops
@PCRotherham
25 November 2020 21:14
@TheBigHon @NCA_LynneOwens @EmWilliamsOU @WeCops This is a concern of mine, I've seen the general level of details in crime reports declining of recent months. Two or three sentences inputted to summarise an investigation isn't good enough for a theft let alone something where county lines comes in to play #WeCops
@WeCops
25 November 2020 21:15
Q2 coming at 9:20pm #WeCops https://t.co/rZsFcyB1mO
@soave1000
25 November 2020 21:15
@snash6414 @WeCops Exactly #WeCops
@NCA_LynneOwens
25 November 2020 21:15
@EmWilliamsOU @snash6414 @JoeCaluori @WeCops Thank you. We have to link this from the neighbourhood to the international. #wecops
@EmWilliamsOU
25 November 2020 21:15
@NCA_LynneOwens @TheBigHon @WeCops @NCA_UK It seems there are issues with data sharing also - it links to treatment / diversion as if LAs do not understand the local demand (market) then treatment services are not matched to need and the demand and market continues #wecops
@Emily1kate
25 November 2020 21:15
@ktbg1 @WeCops #wecops also capture the police learning around tactics for cdl in the Journal ??.. first version??
@Ben__Forbes
25 November 2020 21:15
@GorillaoJustice @WeCops @TV_VRU @OwenTheAnalyst @lewis_mayling @StanGilmour @DetectiveHelen James I already do and am linked into a lot of the public health approaches. However my point is a national focus to evidence base policing, wasn’t saying no force was doing it. From my review on effective practices, it’s clear this is needed and always great to see #wecops
@westieross
25 November 2020 21:15
@WeCops #WeCops One of the examples I was thinking of in this BBC News article on a report prepared for City Hall, London: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-54356383
@GorillaoJustice
25 November 2020 21:15
@Ben__Forbes @WeCops Ben you may want to follow @TV_VRU @OwenTheAnalyst @lewis_mayling @StanGilmour @DetectiveHelen as that’s exactly what we’ve been doing for a while now. Taking a public health approach around our tier 1 trauma centres information sharing and identifying patterns. #wecops
@EmWilliamsOU
25 November 2020 21:16
Yes.... everyone has a role in this and it certainly is not just police #wecops https://twitter.com/NCA_LynneOwens/status/1331708047572553729
@NCA_LynneOwens
25 November 2020 21:16
@mark74brown @EmWilliamsOU @TheBigHon @WeCops Many have a flag but tend to apply it to drugs cases rather than violence offences #wecops
@soave1000
25 November 2020 21:16
@mark74brown @DetectiveHelen @WeCops Exactly. We must think of them as businesses which offers more opportunities to prevent & disrupt #WeCops
@Adver_TSeaward
25 November 2020 21:16
Had an interesting conversation with two officers earlier about how street gangs in a town like Swindon (London #CountyLines territory) graduate into becoming organised crime groups. Local-born leaders of group may well have run for London dealers who moved into Swindon. #wecops https://twitter.com/WeCops/status/1331704212305051650
@soave1000
25 November 2020 21:16
@Jen_Norm @WeCops Lots of work going on in my side of the house #WeCops
@mike200hope
25 November 2020 21:17
@ktbg1 @WeCops A big challenge for policing given the structures and legislation they have to work to whereas criminal gangs can switch tactics instantly without those constraints #wecops
@PCRotherham
25 November 2020 21:17
@westieross @WeCops This is a really interesting and important point. #WeCops
@PC_AGT
25 November 2020 21:17
@PCRotherham @carmenwhittle @WeCops Training and education to all front line practitioners around the exploitation and vulnerability, understanding that this isn't just a drug problem. Knowledge of how our work as a front line officer/practitioner and engagement is key to the bigger picture. #wecops
@carmenwhittle
25 November 2020 21:17
@PCRotherham @WeCops Educate your officers first to spot the signs the same we do for online grooming and dv etc. Then have a dedicated department to assist, some forces may already have this. I’ve recently dealt with one but it stopped with me as unfortunately they were one step ahead. #wecops
@GorillaoJustice
25 November 2020 21:17
@Ben__Forbes @WeCops It’s also far to big to do on a national basis due to the types and distributions of hospitals. Tier 1 hospitals can service numerous police forces. It needs local research and collation of this data. It also needs standardised recording from the NHS #wecops
@EmWilliamsOU
25 November 2020 21:18
@PC_AGT @PCRotherham @carmenwhittle @WeCops Yes and much recognition of the role schools have in terms of identifying vulnerability / exclusions / PRUs etc #wecops
@Ben__Forbes
25 November 2020 21:19
@GorillaoJustice @WeCops Again for me it’s about setting that practice, methodology and process education in place nationally for each force to conduct. Best practice and national guidance on this should be focused in order to bring forces up to speed with how to do it & why to do it. #wecops
@mark74brown
25 November 2020 21:19
@NCA_LynneOwens @EmWilliamsOU @TheBigHon @WeCops Thanks for that Lynne...I appreciate there’s so much pressure on all of policing but if this is such a problem & rapidly becoming such a well organised one could this be something to consider going forward as a specific flag? #wecops
@JoeCaluori
25 November 2020 21:19
@Adver_TSeaward It often seems that this phenomena isn't identified early enough - often not until serious violence, even murders have taken place. Can we call these local gangs in county bases a franchise? Or are they operating independently? #wecops
@NCA_LynneOwens
25 November 2020 21:19
@PCRotherham @westieross @WeCops Covid definitely changed patterns. We reported use of different transport & disguising appearances eg nhs staff or supermarket workers #wecops
@EmWilliamsOU
25 November 2020 21:19
#wecops great point. I think there is huge scope for HMPPS and NPS to assist with both supply and demand #wecops https://twitter.com/pigeonpants/status/1331708893593038849
@ktbg1
25 November 2020 21:19
@Emily1kate @WeCops Written by your good self! Here’s the link https://www.thamesvalley.police.uk/foi-ai/af/accessing-information/published-items?q=journal #wecops
@GorillaoJustice
25 November 2020 21:19
@jameswmullen @WeCops I know academic work is being done to ascertain the impact of SM has on weapon fear and carrying by individuals. I have an opinion which is that fear and hate is bred from communication, this is for a generation done on line. And is as real as an old fashioned “tear up” #wecops
@WeCops
25 November 2020 21:20
Q2 - What problems do police encounter working between force areas and local authorities? Please remember to use the hashtag #WeCops in ALL your replies :) https://t.co/UeorTFk1Ym
@kerrimonaghan1
25 November 2020 21:20
@cmgray2019 @ktbg1 @WeCops What do you think they could do? Is there anyone else out there with good practice? #wecops
@jacquicotter
25 November 2020 21:21
RT @westieross: @WeCops #WeCops One of the examples I was thinking of in this BBC News article on a report prepared for City Hall, London:…
@EmWilliamsOU
25 November 2020 21:22
@WeCops I think the Home Office believe there are issues with definition of safeguarding which is relevant- often thought about as intra familial and this is not that. Might be different perceptions between areas and LAs #wecops
@GorillaoJustice
25 November 2020 21:22
@WeCops I spend my days working with some truly amazing partners. But where we (police) can communicate slightly more effectively our partners just don’t. Social Services speak a similar language but have different safeguarding approaches and teams which make this complex #wecops
@kerrimonaghan1
25 November 2020 21:22
@mike200hope @ktbg1 @WeCops What tactics do you think are most useful to police? #wecops
@notlistenning1
25 November 2020 21:22
@WeCops Force cross border liaison has been poor for years due to a crime on another area does not affect their figs. Also drugs squads closed . Some not worried if off their district #wecops
@EmWilliamsOU
25 November 2020 21:22
This is exactly my point #wecops https://twitter.com/GorillaoJustice/status/1331709814746083328
@PCRotherham
25 November 2020 21:22
@WeCops When I joined one of the main surprises for me was that we don't all share one central information database (excluding the antiquated PNC) - is it time we have a truly Police National Computer? All forces with access to info from each other - one joined-up picture? #WeCops
@mark74brown
25 November 2020 21:23
@mike200hope @ktbg1 @WeCops It’s such a ‘fluid system’...adaptable to all sorts of compromise if and when that occurs when the police catch up...unfortunately it is a game of catch up (in no way a criticism btw)...it’s a county line but can be done nationally moving from one location to another #wecops
@Derek_Flint1
25 November 2020 21:23
@WeCops Standardization of operating procedures outside of PO and Armed Policing ? Local policy differences? ‘Localism’? #Wecops
@gmhales
25 November 2020 21:23
@WeCops https://b9cf6cd4-6aad-4419-a368-724e7d1352b9.usrfiles.com/ugd/b9cf6c_9fe6d78d7e354deeb00ffd194af6b281.pdf #wecops https://t.co/T2QlI8N1d3
@Ben__Forbes
25 November 2020 21:23
@WeCops - Lack of awareness, training and focus on benefits of collaboration/joint sharing for the aim. - Political procedures to get it shared or jointly worked on - Differing / lack of processes to enable this to happen - Organisational structure differs amongst the 43 + NCA #wecops
@GorillaoJustice
25 November 2020 21:23
@EmWilliamsOU @WeCops It’s also a lot to do with how LA’s are set up to manage safeguarding. We have an embedded EDT in our Custody Suite 24(7) others have “on call” social workers which deliver “emergency” support it’s varied county to county #wecops
@PCRotherham
25 November 2020 21:23
@WeCops It would help build that national picture of county lines and other cross border crimes quickly - in addition to the other benefits (IE no PND, no PNC checks etc - all forces on a level playing field) #WeCops
@EmWilliamsOU
25 November 2020 21:24
@BriW74 @WeCops And yet it was BTP I believe that identified many dressed as key workers during the lockdown using the train. I am interested to know what TFL are doing similarly... their staff could be trained also #wecops
@NCA_LynneOwens
25 November 2020 21:24
@PCRotherham @WeCops Totally agree. Separate intell systems is a blocker. PND is a step forward #wecops
@SuptMarshall
25 November 2020 21:24
@WeCops Forces prioritise differently. Some will deploy signifcant resources to CL activity and some will work more collaboratively than others. Some will be proactive, others reactive. Do we need a clear, national strategy perhaps with a single agency lead? #wecops
@Emily1kate
25 November 2020 21:24
@WeCops #wecops there needs to be one language around a public health approach. As we know we can’t arrest are way out of this.
@NCA_LynneOwens
25 November 2020 21:25
@EmWilliamsOU @BriW74 @WeCops BTP do great work in this area & pick up many changing patterns #wecops
@cmgray2019
25 November 2020 21:25
@WeCops Are we tapping into /linking with the right partners? My sister works in the fostering team in SS and I do think more can be done with information and intelligence sharing - the information they collect as part of fostering assessments/placements is eye opening. #wecops
@GorillaoJustice
25 November 2020 21:26
@jameswmullen @WeCops A generation treat an SM “slight” as we would have with a pub fight between groups. I think we need to realise how seriously this is taken by our children. They live a life online and invest in it. This has increased during CV19 #wecops
@EmWilliamsOU
25 November 2020 21:26
@Emily1kate @WeCops I agree.. and also the treatment issue is core. We focus on specific groups of drug users and many of the key drivers of this market are largely ignored.. I am thinking of one being the City .... #wecops
@gmhales
25 November 2020 21:26
@WeCops https://b9cf6cd4-6aad-4419-a368-724e7d1352b9.usrfiles.com/ugd/b9cf6c_9fe6d78d7e354deeb00ffd194af6b281.pdf #wecops https://t.co/lwrHkenkic
@CraigNaylorNCA
25 November 2020 21:26
@WeCops Big issue is children in care being moved across LA boundaries to private homes with no link to local services. Big intel gap and significant vulnerabilities exploited. Reach back to hone address and network not addressed & no intel share. #wecops
@cmgray2019
25 November 2020 21:27
@WeCops country approach not county approach in my view #wecops
@ktbg1
25 November 2020 21:27
@JoeCaluori @WeCops I do think this is a problem. Exporting forces & those feeling the brunt must work together #wecops
@DetectiveHelen
25 November 2020 21:27
@WeCops Communication is the obvious one, but it’s knowing who specifically to communicate with - county line drug supply is a multi-faceted issue with implications/risk for many different departments within the police - having centralised CDL units is a must #wecops
@mark74brown
25 November 2020 21:27
@notlistenning1 @WeCops That can be an issue...how many times have we all thought “thank god for that” when a prolific offender has moved out your area as an example? County Lines are fluid and can re-locate quickly if compromised...this must be a problem or the question posed wouldn’t be?! #wecops
@JoeCaluori
25 November 2020 21:27
@cmgray2019 @WeCops Do placing and hosting local authorities share information about looked after children with local police to manage risks around exploitation? How could this be improved? #wecops
@carmenwhittle
25 November 2020 21:28
@WeCops Lack of shared information, collaboration and sharing innovative ideas. CL is cross forces but we don’t work cross boarder as effective as we should. We must miss so much. #wecops
@EmWilliamsOU
25 November 2020 21:28
Recently found the same in some work.. thanks Gavin #wecops https://twitter.com/gmhales/status/1331710961619775490
@kerrimonaghan1
25 November 2020 21:28
@JoeCaluori @WeCops #wecops Joe, an very interesting finding. Collaboration?
@GorillaoJustice
25 November 2020 21:29
@SuptMarshall @WeCops Boss I think we need to help our partners lead on child exploitation, get them talking nationally we already do for a great many things as @EmWilliamsOU said it’s varied and inconsistent LA approaches that stop us getting the wraparound post CJ care exploited kids need #wecops
@mike200hope
25 November 2020 21:29
@kerrimonaghan1 @ktbg1 @WeCops Very difficult. Do police go for long term investigations to gather larger amounts of evidence with the aim of longer sentences but which are costly and resource intensive or lower-level disruption which may just result in those arrested being replaced instantly #wecops
@WeCops
25 November 2020 21:30
Keep the conversation going - but it's really important that you include the #WeCops hashtag; this allows everyone following the chat to see your replies. The last question for tonight is coming out in 10 minutes. https://t.co/e2LfPxeu42
@JoeCaluori
25 November 2020 21:30
@WeCops It has taken time for police forces and local authorities to work well together on local risks through safeguarding boards - but when those risks stretch across geographic boundaries how can they knit an effective holistic response together? #wecops
@PC_AGT
25 November 2020 21:30
@WeCops An approach around Dedicated multi-agency practitioners to be embedded into our CDL taskforces/teams is needed. Similar to that of DA support advisors who work so closely to DA teams within forces. Strengthening our response and breeding effective communication #wecops
@EmWilliamsOU
25 November 2020 21:30
@GorillaoJustice @SuptMarshall @WeCops Indeed and the issue of vulnerable adults who can also form a role in this is another layer of complication #wecops
@mark74brown
25 November 2020 21:30
@SuptMarshall @WeCops That has to be the way forward with a national strategy/lead agency? Same mission so to speak as Prevent for eg...regional management/teams but lead centrally could work in the same way #wecops
@westieross
25 November 2020 21:31
@GorillaoJustice @WeCops Should there be some common ground, though, between police and LA social services teams as both should be working within Working Together to Safeguard Children statutory guidance? How far is this useful for safeguarding relating to child criminal exploitation through CL? #WeCops
@SuptMarshall
25 November 2020 21:31
@EmWilliamsOU @WeCops Agree. A lot of interdependency on LA's in their approach to vulnerability and safeguarding of vulnerable adults and children which feeds directly into policing strategy #wecops
@RezzieJames
25 November 2020 21:32
@NCA_LynneOwens @PCRotherham @WeCops Much time & effort put in to tackling county lines drug supply is fruitless & alienates BAME communities . Far more resources needs to go in to tackling Op VENETIC level drug importation / supply. Tackle the OCN'S who bring the commodity in to the UK. #wecops
@kerrimonaghan1
25 November 2020 21:32
@jonny4pints @WeCops Do you think front line cops need more training on what to look for? #wecops
@cmgray2019
25 November 2020 21:33
@WeCops Perhaps the police teams tackling CL need to have partners seconded to us or we create a health/SS position to ensure the wider knowledge is embedded - it would give better cross over and perhaps enhance joined up thinking/approaches. . .#wecops
@carmenwhittle
25 November 2020 21:33
@Ben__Forbes @WeCops Let’s also not forget educating children to spot the signs the same we do on online grooming. Schools have to engage with this because it impacts them. Every school will have at least one child if not more being groomed for CL. #wecops
@Jamessenior209
25 November 2020 21:33
@WeCops No 2 county lines seem to operate the same, with a mixture of tactics that adapt. Similarity seems to be exploitation in my experience (local to them and local to the importing area). Violence def ^ but not just county lines, also local drug gangs too #wecops
@mark74brown
25 November 2020 21:33
@JoeCaluori @WeCops Ownership has to be a real issue to bottom out...if somebody is travelling out of London to the South Coast is that a Met problem or a Hants problem for eg? This is a great point to raise #wecops
@NCA_LynneOwens
25 November 2020 21:33
@RezzieJames @PCRotherham @WeCops You won’t find me arguing with that James! #wecops
@MarcAndrewH
25 November 2020 21:33
@WeCops Forces have different priorities around CL based on the impact it has on them rather than issue as a whole importers concerns are drugs/violence and exporters have to worry about the safeguarding once identified. #wecops
@PCRotherham
25 November 2020 21:33
@huttersm @WeCops I just don't understand why this hasn't been done either by a push from the Home Office or by the NPCC. The debate about having a database large and secure enough not being achievable is utter poppycock - other big businesses manage, so could we if we invested correctly #WeCops
@GorillaoJustice
25 November 2020 21:33
@EmWilliamsOU @SuptMarshall @WeCops It needs a one stop shop for protecting vulnerable people under the guise of Criminally exploited Adults & Children we also mustn’t lose sight of a lot of “children” use violence and exploit vulnerable adults and use violence to achieve this #wecops
@JoeCaluori
25 November 2020 21:34
@mark74brown @SuptMarshall @WeCops It has taken time for police forces and local authorities to work well together on local risks through safeguarding boards - but when those risks stretch across geographic boundaries how can they knit an effective holistic response together? #wecops
@_amyhurst
25 November 2020 21:34
@EmWilliamsOU @GorillaoJustice @SuptMarshall @WeCops Impact on vulnerable adults & wider community are issues which I often see coming up in local area discussions. County lines often wrapped up in child exploitation strategies/responses which can leave wider issues as outliers #WeCops
@cmgray2019
25 November 2020 21:35
@WeCops The National Crime Agency's 2018 publication focussed on the 'care experienced' children being the largest targeted group by dealers - that to me shows that we need an 'in' to those in the care sphere to help us engage. #wecops
@SuptMarshall
25 November 2020 21:35
@GorillaoJustice @WeCops @EmWilliamsOU Totally agree. Partner agencies must address this as a priority and dedicate appropriate resources to work with us in order to support the wider efforts #wecops
@JoeCaluori
25 November 2020 21:35
@WeCops Perhaps there is more we can learn from the national response to CSE - as we design a national response to CCE and county lines? Common tools, accountability, prioritisation #wecops
@mark74brown
25 November 2020 21:36
@westieross @GorillaoJustice @WeCops I believe this should take the same structure/policy etc as the way Prevent is delivered...it’s the best example I can think of having worked in that where multi-agency disparities were largely removed by way of duty of care/info sharing etc & who owns the problem #wecops
@EmWilliamsOU
25 November 2020 21:36
I could not agree more. I know PHE are particularly concerned about the ignorance here. Why are lines going to the home counties.. these are not street drug users! Individuals have no idea that what they are purchasing has involved the level of exploitation it has #wecops https://twitter.com/SLBirdintheTree/status/1331712714910085120
@RezzieJames
25 November 2020 21:36
@NCA_LynneOwens @PCRotherham @WeCops Interesting that the demograhic of top tier VENETIC offenders is vastly different to County Line offenders. 50 Rocks = 15 year black male. 100 kilos of Class A = 40+ year old White male ... the first is heavily policed the second is not #wecops
@kerrimonaghan1
25 November 2020 21:36
@ejlane_ @WeCops #wecops is this more of a problem in bigger forces when there are often no people with local knowledge on duty?
@PCRotherham
25 November 2020 21:36
@huttersm @WeCops More than likely, but again is this really an acceptable hurdle? Not in my opinion. #WeCops
@Frankieoffrank
25 November 2020 21:36
@RezzieJames @NCA_LynneOwens @PCRotherham @WeCops Agree the struggle is always up streaming investigations and that is where we can have a real impact. Gaps filled way too quickly at the lower levels #wecops
@jqjasonkew
25 November 2020 21:37
@WeCops Very small numbers of people actually use the most, competition for this market is volatile but other markets remain & supply evolves.. online etc.. the market has become supply rather than demand driven with markets like Slough few cdls still see internal violence #wecops
@PSRyanPowell
25 November 2020 21:37
@WeCops I wonder if there are too many partners and safeguarding options... LA’s, charities, police, NRM, schools, socila care... so many approaches, all slightly different when everyone wants the same thing. Dilutes our partner and our actions #WeCops
@PC_Angry
25 November 2020 21:37
@WeCops Resources. #wecops
@UkCountyLines
25 November 2020 21:37
RT @NCA_LynneOwens: @JoeCaluori @EmWilliamsOU @TheBigHon @WeCops Definitely. Rivalry & competition are definite motivators #wecops
@snash6414
25 November 2020 21:37
@GorillaoJustice @ktbg1 @JoeCaluori @WeCops And you forgot your #WeCops. It’ll be cakes soon boss ??
@carmenwhittle
25 November 2020 21:38
@kerrimonaghan1 @jonny4pints @WeCops Yes most definitely because it takes looking at the bigger picture. The easiest part of our job is arresting people, but seeing the bigger picture and prevention is sadly missed by many. Trading officers to spot the signs and then take an active role in safeguarding #wecops
@PC_Angry
25 November 2020 21:38
@WeCops Key point is not to confuse crack and heroin market with powder coke market - the violence comes from the former. #wecops
@gmhales
25 November 2020 21:38
@RezzieJames @NCA_LynneOwens @PCRotherham @WeCops Former more visible and more likely to be drawn into violence #wecops
@GorillaoJustice
25 November 2020 21:39
@PSRyanPowell @WeCops Ryan each of those you mention have statutory legal obligations. Each is a trained specialist in their area. We are stronger collectively as more options and alternatives to support CE children. What we actually need is one common language and terms of reference #wecops
@cmgray2019
25 November 2020 21:39
@WeCops forgot the hashtag - Dan will be cross! #wecops
@EmWilliamsOU
25 November 2020 21:39
#wecops https://twitter.com/AndreasThinks/status/1331713996601372673
@RezzieJames
25 November 2020 21:39
@NCA_LynneOwens @PCRotherham @WeCops Law enforcement & the CPS need to be utterly ruthless when dealing with Top Tier OCNS. Double the number of proactive syndicates & financial investigators #wecops
@WeCops
25 November 2020 21:40
Q3 - What options do police and partners have to deal with young people being exploited and groomed by County Drug Lines? Remember the hashtag pls!!! #WeCops https://t.co/TmhTw80c1V
@mark74brown
25 November 2020 21:40
@JoeCaluori @SuptMarshall @WeCops Is this where a national lead agency can be the key? Similar to Prevent which means all LA’s + police & partners have a mandated duty of care which can be devolved via a regional structure back down through to local because of its ‘borderless’ nuances #wecops
@PC_Angry
25 November 2020 21:40
@WeCops Some are duped into believing that some are victims of modern slavery when many have cottoned on to using as a defence when all the evidence suggests otherwise. #wecops
@GorillaoJustice
25 November 2020 21:40
@snash6414 @ktbg1 @JoeCaluori @WeCops I’ve had a long day and I’m still working....here’s your cake.. #wecops ?? https://t.co/fj6QW5yRN6
@Jamessenior209
25 November 2020 21:41
@WeCops In my previous regional county lines role linked into the national network, I didn’t have geographical barriers but difficulties arise due to the different structures in forces. So many different teams, operation names and remits make it challenging to get consistency #wecops
@PCRotherham
25 November 2020 21:41
@JoeCaluori @WeCops I think part of the blocker is around fears over Data Protection. Authorities (Police & partner agencies alike) are sometimes too fearful of potentially breaching GDPA - rather sharing what we know, we hold back for fear of hefty fines. #WeCops
@jacquicotter
25 November 2020 21:41
RT @kerrimonaghan1: @jonny4pints @WeCops Do you think front line cops need more training on what to look for? #wecops
@JoeCaluori
25 November 2020 21:41
@GorillaoJustice @PSRyanPowell @WeCops Perhaps this is what we need from a legal definition of CCE and a national interdepartmental strategy? The current patchwork of responses seems to prevent consistent joint working #wecops
@PSRyanPowell
25 November 2020 21:41
@GorillaoJustice @WeCops Agree all need to be involved... but the strategy often isn’t joined up enough. For example the NRM process doesn’t feed into social care’s work enough. It’s often a cloak and dagger process. We often have different strategies and dont stick to one plan from the start #WeCops
@NCA_LynneOwens
25 November 2020 21:42
@RezzieJames @PCRotherham @WeCops I’d agree that wholesale investment in those areas would be worthwhile. We aren’t there yet but conversation continues with the Home Office & policing partners #wecops
@GorillaoJustice
25 November 2020 21:42
@WeCops @EmWilliamsOU This is controversial but we mustn’t be afraid to fully use the CJ system and consensual disruption. It’s incredibly rare for a CE child to seek help prior to any reachable moment so when there is one lets us those powers. Plus it’s about outcomes not punishment! #wecops
@Frankieoffrank
25 November 2020 21:42
@WeCops The ideal is to focus on how we can identify those likely to be targeted before they are exploited to prevent it in the first place. So hard to turn it around when they are already running for teams. #wecops
@PC_Angry
25 November 2020 21:42
@WeCops Use of divert, push towards vocations for self worth such as armed forces. If they dont engage facing full weight of the law inevitable. Carrot and stick approach. #wecops.
@Wiggett_IE
25 November 2020 21:42
@Frankieoffrank @WeCops More violence would imply a more chaotic market and more competition for market share #WeCops
@PSRyanPowell
25 November 2020 21:42
@JoeCaluori @GorillaoJustice @WeCops Agreed! There are hundreds of approaches nation wide. Everyone wants the same thing, we just often take twice as long to get where we want to be #WeCops
@snash6414
25 November 2020 21:42
@WeCops A lot can depend on the willingness of the young person to engage with us. Many don’t recognise they are being exploited. We have to accept that as hard as we try some don’t want our help. This can then hugely effect our options #WeCops
@PCRotherham
25 November 2020 21:43
@jacquicotter @NCA_LynneOwens @WeCops Depends on the force and the officer conducting the check. Information obtained can often be skeletal details which require a follow-up email to get further details which will be sent weeks down the line. #WeCops
@GorillaoJustice
25 November 2020 21:43
@PSRyanPowell @WeCops Perhaps the NRM process isn’t fit for CE children? Perhaps a review needs to be done? #wecops
@Frankieoffrank
25 November 2020 21:43
@WeCops I’m currently looking at what early police contact might represent a trigger point and what early intervention we could then do with partners. #wecops
@mark74brown
25 November 2020 21:43
@GorillaoJustice @PSRyanPowell @WeCops Sorry I keep banging on about Prevent but it’s the best example of what @GorillaoJustice is referring to and as usual he’s absolutely spot on with this! #wecops
@PC_Angry
25 November 2020 21:43
@GorillaoJustice @WeCops @EmWilliamsOU Not always - some enjoy it and the power it can wield. #wecops
@MarcAndrewH
25 November 2020 21:43
@GorillaoJustice @ktbg1 @JoeCaluori @WeCops Surely better to merge the two, my force huge net importer (zero known export) other border forces huge exporters. They are different parts of the same problem and in my view need working through as a whole. Regional CL teams i feel is the best solution for us #wecops
@kerrimonaghan1
25 November 2020 21:43
@ejlane_ @WeCops #wecops
@CraigNaylorNCA
25 November 2020 21:43
@WeCops Needs a whole system approach looking at connections (both +ve and -ve) and how this influences young person. Public health approach to problem solve has been shown to reduce vulnerability and improve personal resilience. #wecops
@gmhales
25 November 2020 21:44
@RezzieJames @NCA_LynneOwens @PCRotherham @WeCops #wecops https://t.co/lG5cbsGu32
@cmgray2019
25 November 2020 21:44
@WeCops @EmWilliamsOU So I have quickly text my sis this question and said can they move children in care to another area/placement? - answer is no, because then the child feels they are in the wrong and being punished and have no constant base. I understand this but then what. . . #wecops
@EmWilliamsOU
25 November 2020 21:44
@GorillaoJustice @WeCops It gets to something when you hear of kids being interviewed in prison who feel safer being in there than going back to the group they are part of - we really must not forget the intra gang violence and threat - to young men and girls #wecops
@poodart2
25 November 2020 21:44
@WeCops Lack of inteligence sharing based on different local systems. One national system with access by all forces would be much better #wecops
@SuptMarshall
25 November 2020 21:44
@WeCops A similar approach as Prevent perhaps? A tailored national strategy to identify and divert those vulnerable to CL exploitation. Again, would need to be multi agency driven with consistent support and commitment from partners #wecops
@Jamessenior209
25 November 2020 21:44
@WeCops 1. Strong enforcement against controllers and exploiters, 2. Support & diversion for young people and drug dependants, 3. Multi-agency approach, 4. Eye on the prize... the organised crime group running the county line #wecops
@PSRyanPowell
25 November 2020 21:45
@GorillaoJustice @WeCops Think you’ll struggle to find someone who doesn’t agree with you that the NRM process isn’t working as well as it could! It feels like an add on, when if we’re serious about CE it should be a framework or a starting point and not seen as in affective or a pain #WeCops
@JoeCaluori
25 November 2020 21:45
@WeCops Is the Modern Slavery Legislation being used to its fullest extent? Are the risk orders being used in county bases? #wecops
@carmenwhittle
25 November 2020 21:45
@WeCops Not as many as we should have, I’m not sure we know the full picture yet. We will only find this out in years to come when those involved brake away and tell us why. We know it’s a form of grooming so is it because of emotional needs. Vulnerabilities, poverty etc #wecops
@EmWilliamsOU
25 November 2020 21:45
No? #wecops https://twitter.com/JoeCaluori/status/1331715619000029186
@PCRotherham
25 November 2020 21:46
@cmgray2019 @WeCops @EmWilliamsOU Ultimately we need to be listening to the child. Their voice, concerns and opinions matter. Being pushed from pillar to post by authorities exacerbates the problem, increasing their vulnerability and likelihood of being prayed on by gangs #WeCops
@Wiggett_IE
25 November 2020 21:46
@Emily1kate @WeCops Does that also feed into different org culture views - eg vuln victims or drug traffickers? #WeCops
@mark74brown
25 November 2020 21:47
@PCRotherham @JoeCaluori @WeCops I know I’m banging on about Prevent tonight but exactly the same is required for CL...which through mandates works to avoid issues of duty of care & data sharing...plus that all important ‘who holds the risk’ as an agency as it can’t always be police held risk! #wecops
@PCRotherham
25 November 2020 21:47
@cmgray2019 @WeCops @EmWilliamsOU All anyone wants, child or not, is somewhere to call home and people to call family, to feel wanted & loved. This is what gangs initially offer, grooming them and pulling them away from safe networks. #WeCops
@EmWilliamsOU
25 November 2020 21:47
@PCRotherham @cmgray2019 @WeCops Indeed - the early intervention work from violence reduction teams here is key and the recognition of ACEs... #wecops
@EmWilliamsOU
25 November 2020 21:47
RT @Wiggett_IE: @Emily1kate @WeCops Does that also feed into different org culture views - eg vuln victims or drug traffickers? #WeCops
@GorillaoJustice
25 November 2020 21:47
@WeCops @EmWilliamsOU Lots of children say they’re “untouchable” and the exploiters know this. We use a victim approach and the exploiters use fear and violence. One of these is currently winning and sadly it’s not the victim approach as that needs 24(7) support #wecops
@chirpy8221
25 November 2020 21:48
Give them police poetry to break down barriers #WeCops https://smile.amazon.co.uk/Blue-Verse-Mark-Chambers/dp/B085DSCD61/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=blue+verse&qid=1606339400&sr=8-1 https://twitter.com/WeCops/status/1331714276436959235
@kerrimonaghan1
25 November 2020 21:48
@snash6414 @WeCops How can we make them realise they are being exploited? They have been conditioned not to engage with us. #wecops
@RezzieJames
25 November 2020 21:48
@NCA_LynneOwens @PCRotherham @WeCops Would be good if Police / NCA could claw back & reinvest 100% of POCA seizures in to proactive & intelligence led capabilities. #wecops
@IPA_Gangs
25 November 2020 21:49
@PC_Angry @WeCops And this is exactly why drugs supply investigations should be specialised and cases be treated as a dual MS investigation as those enquiries will help prove/disprove MS claims rather than waiting for the defence case statement post charge. #WeCops
@snash6414
25 November 2020 21:49
@JoeCaluori @WeCops I would argue not. The young person is often not willing to tell us names or details of the person they are running for. Whilst we may know who it is proving it is a different matter, again making it difficult to use the legislation. #WeCops
@cmgray2019
25 November 2020 21:49
@WeCops @EmWilliamsOU Offering a business enterprise - this was a chance given to a young man I met in custody - he was mentored and now has his own fashion label - he needed to know he had a worth. The HCP and I who dealt with him still cry happy tears about it! He only felt safe in custody ??#wecops
@PCRotherham
25 November 2020 21:49
@EmWilliamsOU @GorillaoJustice @WeCops We must not forget either that at the heart of this is a child, a scared and vulnerable child, who's entire future has been decided by the profits of another. #WeCops
@snash6414
25 November 2020 21:49
@JoeCaluori @WeCops Re the risk orders... I’ll have to get back to you on that. Got my training around them in a couple of weeks ?? #WeCops
@DetectiveHelen
25 November 2020 21:50
@WeCops Better education around exploitation has highlighted the need to work with young people to divert them away from criminality. Youth workers are worth their weight in gold - pro social role models can make a real difference #wecops
@daimogssoapbox
25 November 2020 21:50
@WeCops @McManus_M_ Bureaucracy, different approaches, egos, great practitioners but barriers, consistency and standardisation or not, where I am could be issues around language and bilingualism; but overall working hard against a tidal wave Q2 #wecops @WeCops
@_amyhurst
25 November 2020 21:50
@WeCops @childrensociety Disrupting Exploitation programme doing some really interesting systems change work on this. Great blog from @nerysanthony @CraigGrady8 & others setting out some of their learning & reflections to date https://medium.com/on-the-frontline-of-systems-change/reflections-on-a-systemically-informed-service-to-disrupt-criminal-exploitation-1e3a711f64f9 #WeCops
@PCRotherham
25 November 2020 21:50
@JoeCaluori @WeCops I dare say no, I don't think the legislation is well known enough to front line officers who are most likely to come across it. #WeCops
@jacquicotter
25 November 2020 21:50
@WeCops @WeCops #wecops CL is creating chaos- Kids becoming murderers as well as being murdered. Psychological trauma of seeing violence, working trap houses, cuckooing-BRUTAL. An option is to make it illegal to create a gang in the UK. Gangs are structures in which all this takes place
@kerrimonaghan1
25 November 2020 21:50
@SuptMarshall @WeCops A common theme this evening has been lack of consistency across areas within the same force so maybe this is exactly what is needed. Across partner agencies too #wecops
@EmWilliamsOU
25 November 2020 21:50
@PCRotherham @GorillaoJustice @WeCops I think the rescue and response programme in London looks really promising but they have finite resources and alot of YP to deal with #wecops
@snash6414
25 November 2020 21:51
@kerrimonaghan1 @WeCops Exactly. And our first encounter can be us arresting them in the home of a vulnerable person. Not the ideal setting for building relationships and rapport. It can be done but it’s difficult. Perhaps our focus needs to be more on those not yet in the line #WeCops
@PC_AGT
25 November 2020 21:51
@WeCops Maximising our powers, legislation and prosecution options to deal with those commiting these offences in an innovative manner to safeguard our vulnerable at the same time. Thinking outside the box when it comes to prosecution #wecops
@mark74brown
25 November 2020 21:51
@SuptMarshall @WeCops Absolutely yes!!! Plus the emphasis & quite rightly is CCE but let’s not forget the young adults who are also exploited and once 18 they are set adrift from safeguarding mechanisms for those under 18 & at just as much risk when they have no protective ring #wecops
@Wiggett_IE
25 November 2020 21:51
@WeCops Gaps seem to come back to Q2. Different responses and different quality of response between agencies for a cross-border problem = not helpful #WeCops
@JoeCaluori
25 November 2020 21:51
@WeCops How can local police forces manage the contextual risks around 'unregulated' care homes? In Merseyside the police object to planning applications for new unregistered homes because of the exploitation and harm they enable #wecops
@westieross
25 November 2020 21:51
@WeCops Areas with Violence Reduction Units and possibly separate teams working on CL perhaps need to ensure they are working closely together and engaging with Safeguarding colleagues to address options for getting young people out of exploitative situations? #WeCops
@GorillaoJustice
25 November 2020 21:52
@PCRotherham @EmWilliamsOU @WeCops But we also mustn’t forget that some of those children are exploiting others, using violence and continuing that cycle of abuse. We have to have hard conversations about where victim and offender start and stop. By treating everyone as a victim doesn’t address root causes #wecops
@O_M_Gower
25 November 2020 21:52
@WeCops Late to this tonight, but worth not missing out on how key n'hood policing (linking with other teams) is for tackling this, with knowledge, links to local partners and boots on the ground. Can miss this if we focus on problems q. Also, regional teams can't deliver this #wecops
@ColledgeLynne
25 November 2020 21:52
@WeCops Multi agency contextual safeguarding, multi agency data flagging of CE cases and effective information sharing to understand the problem, use of mentors, training front line staff to understand indicators to intervene at teachable moments- custody, misper #wecops
@Emily1kate
25 November 2020 21:52
@WeCops #wecops this is a issue for the whole of society and linked to poverty. Young kids need to have other options. The police can disrupt and lock up but need government and wider society need to build prevention.
@kerrimonaghan1
25 November 2020 21:52
@snash6414 @WeCops #wecops
@jonny4pints
25 November 2020 21:52
@WeCops Sorry #wecops
@Michael11861
25 November 2020 21:53
Caveat Emptor: I've no background in policing. Been reading the #WeCops questions tonight & the various responses. I'm quite good at pattern-recognition & the perennial problem seems to be communication (or lack of).
@DetectiveHelen
25 November 2020 21:53
@JoeCaluori @WeCops We are about to write our first STRO in @TV_VRU very soon - hopefully this will encourage others at @ThamesVP to utilise this particular tactic #wecops
@jqjasonkew
25 November 2020 21:53
@WeCops Listen to the child, work with them.. humanise the huge machine which is us.. #wecops Ultimately, we need to radically change the shape of the drug market removing the reason for the CCE. Ie Heroin assisted treatment, whole system approach to disrupting the drug market.
@JoeCaluori
25 November 2020 21:53
@WeCops One social worker we interviewed called unregistered care homes 'government funded traphouses' - it seems completely unacceptable that vulnerable children with previous experience of exploitation are placed in those settings #wecops
@EmWilliamsOU
25 November 2020 21:53
@GorillaoJustice @PCRotherham @WeCops The work Prof Simon Harding has done on this is incredible #wecops
@carmenwhittle
25 November 2020 21:53
@Jamessenior209 @WeCops In line with the enforcement side, sexual offences towards children is not socially acceptable so make CL the same. They are exploiting children and so many are also involved in cse. Teach parents to spot the signs, challenge it and report it. #wecops
@GorillaoJustice
25 November 2020 21:53
@EmWilliamsOU @PCRotherham @WeCops To make an impact you need face to face consistent hands on support CE children need this close support being in their lives 24(7) and not just “signposting” what if they can’t read the signposts? They need a navigator with them. #wecops
@PC_Angry
25 November 2020 21:53
@AndreasThinks @SLBirdintheTree @EmWilliamsOU @Emily1kate @WeCops Crack, Heroin and Cannabis. Not powder coke which makes this whole ‘blame the middle classes for violence’ a complete and utter joke. #wecops
@mark74brown
25 November 2020 21:54
@WeCops Most of the emphasis is on CCE but we must not forget those over 18...many of whom are cast adrift from the safeguarding ring the day after their 18th birthday...CCE but also VACE (Vulnerable Adult Criminal Exploitation) #wecops
@Frankieoffrank
25 November 2020 21:54
@PC_Angry @GorillaoJustice @WeCops @EmWilliamsOU They enjoy it until it totally destroys them, is what I have seen - but very hard to get across the risk while they are enjoying the lifestyle. #wecops
@daimogssoapbox
25 November 2020 21:54
@WeCops Q3 @WeCops #wecops diversionary/divert schemes utilising all the preventative tools at our disposal, actually they need protecting and treated as victims and not suspects, reality is that cuts across public services over last decade have been unhelpful!!
@JoeCaluori
25 November 2020 21:54
@Wiggett_IE @WeCops An important issue for the 'Care Review' which is imminent #wecops
@McManus_M_
25 November 2020 21:54
@WeCops So much to say here...Lack of governance, formalised agreements, leadership, culture often given as key issues which impact on transparency, individual & organisational feedback, information sharing & ability to see across systems to respond & resource appropriately #wecops Q2
@GorillaoJustice
25 November 2020 21:55
@Frankieoffrank @PC_Angry @WeCops @EmWilliamsOU Exactly my point. As an adult we may know that the path they’ve taken is the wrong one. But without any consequence then there is no reason for them to take a different route in life? #wecops
@Miles_PBH
25 November 2020 21:55
@PCRotherham @WeCops #WeCops playing with #OSINT recently, seems to me there’s some rich seams of data to mine for intel without expensive in house development or consulting
@RezzieJames
25 November 2020 21:56
@NCA_LynneOwens @PCRotherham @WeCops Policing as a whole needs to pivot towards a far more upstream intelligence led way of tackling firearms & drug supply. Current methods are fruitless & alienate communities. Hugh efforts are put in to recovering small amounts & criminalising teenagers from poor bacgrounds #wecops
@JoeCaluori
25 November 2020 21:56
@WeCops What experiences do people have of the NRM? It seems a slow and distant process that doesn't deliver a robust enough safeguarding response - allowing those kids to potentially be re-exploited #wecops
@jacquicotter
25 November 2020 21:57
@WeCops @wecops #wecops Definition of a gang for this purpose: discernible group, engage in criminality, lay claim to territory, identifying structure, get into conflict with other gangs (Dying to belong, 2009, p 21)
@EmWilliamsOU
25 November 2020 21:57
@JoeCaluori @Wiggett_IE @WeCops It is but will the findings from the care review be coordinated with the work on CLs, safeguarding etc or will we see another set of recommendations that are not joined up. The issues are the same across the board #wecops
@cmgray2019
25 November 2020 21:57
@PCRotherham @WeCops @EmWilliamsOU agree - so lets offer something better. . .I was a child when I had my first child and that was my way of trying to feel wanted - children need options, support and understanding. Many involved in CL are trying to help their own struggling families #wecops
@GorillaoJustice
25 November 2020 21:57
@Frankieoffrank @PC_Angry @WeCops @EmWilliamsOU We also forget that the victims of children using violence are not going to engage with us if we treat their attacker/abuser as a victim what message does that actually send out? We don’t do that in schools why do we do it dealing with CDL’s? #wecops
@westieross
25 November 2020 21:58
@Wiggett_IE @WeCops #WeCops
@gmhales
25 November 2020 21:58
@SuptMarshall @PCRotherham @WeCops Is #CountyLines too narrow (rather than 'criminal exploitation') and does the vocabulary focus too much on cross-border operations, ignoring eg the same dynamics within force areas (incl urban - rural links)? #wecops
@CIJustinEvans
25 November 2020 21:58
@WeCops #wecops replicate the prevent strategy
@Miles_PBH
25 November 2020 21:59
@PC_AGT @EmWilliamsOU @PCRotherham @carmenwhittle @WeCops #WeCops ???????
@mark74brown
25 November 2020 21:59
@WeCops Are Gangs Injunctions still be utilised? Also something that could be considered is Child Abduction Notices for the CL hierarchy (if over 18) to be issued with when they are exploiting those under 18? #wecops
@JoeCaluori
25 November 2020 21:59
@EmWilliamsOU @Wiggett_IE @WeCops The Home Office and the MoJ should view the Care Review as an important opportunity to invest in early intervention - it shouldn't be placed into a government silo #wecops
@Wiggett_IE
25 November 2020 21:59
@westieross @WeCops From other experience (not CL), probably yes #WeCops
@IPA_Gangs
25 November 2020 21:59
@WeCops A job you’re dealing with that needs important enquiries in another area and that area either not willing to assist or treating it as unimportant as they’ve got their own things to deal with. #WeCops
@snash6414
25 November 2020 21:59
@JoeCaluori @WeCops I’ve only recently started to understand the NRM as part of my new role and have to say I’m not a fan. As you said - slow process, doesn’t seem to add anything and the results can be quite predictable. What difference is it actually making ????? #WeCops
@EmWilliamsOU
25 November 2020 21:59
Agree completely... #wecops https://twitter.com/JoeCaluori/status/1331719106878377986
@WeCops
25 November 2020 22:00
Can we get a big #WeCops Thank You to our hosts, @EmWilliamsCCCU and @JoeCaluori for leading tonights chat on #CountyLines! & a big Thank You to all of you who participated. The chat statistics will be tweeted out soon. https://t.co/pdcRuUBseA
@PC_Angry
25 November 2020 22:00
@JoeCaluori @WeCops Assuming they are exploited.. some are using it as a defence despite evidence to contrary. #wecops
@PCRotherham
25 November 2020 22:00
@WeCops As with most of the #WeCops chats, I also feel there should be more importance, funding and resourcing put into Neighbourhood Policing. It's the backbone of everything we do, build the picture of who's doing what, when, where and why - we might stand a chance then #WeCops
@O_M_Gower
25 November 2020 22:00
@jqjasonkew @WeCops Definitely. The different parts of the system, working together, needs to be able to care for the people caught up in this and to offer them hope and keep them safe. #wecops (deleted then added this!)
@EmWilliamsOU
25 November 2020 22:00
@JoeCaluori @Wiggett_IE @WeCops I believe the developing HMPSS drugs strategy is trying to move beyond silos too. I will be interested to see the final outcome on that #wecops
@SuptMarshall
25 November 2020 22:01
@WeCops @JoeCaluori Thank you hosts ???? Great discussion as ever! #wecops
@snash6414
25 November 2020 22:01
@JoeCaluori @WeCops I’m happy to be told otherwise. But at present it appears to be just another form to fill in with no actual benefit. The safeguarding of the young person should and would be completed without the NRM I feel. #WeCops
@RezzieJames
25 November 2020 22:01
@NCA_LynneOwens @PCRotherham @WeCops Organised Drugs & Firearms importation needs to be classified as a Threat to National Security tackled accordingly. #wecops
@JoeCaluori
25 November 2020 22:01
@snash6414 @WeCops 452 days average wait! Backlog of 12,000 cases. #wecops
@kerrimonaghan1
25 November 2020 22:01
@eggcup61 @WeCops #wecops
@daimogssoapbox
25 November 2020 22:01
RT @WeCops: Can we get a big #WeCops Thank You to our hosts, @EmWilliamsCCCU and @JoeCaluori for leading tonights chat on #CountyLines! &…
@RezzieJames
25 November 2020 22:01
@NCA_LynneOwens @PCRotherham @WeCops Organised Drugs & Firearms importation needs to be classified as a Threat to National Security & tackled accordingly. #wecops
@jacquicotter
25 November 2020 22:01
@mark74brown @WeCops #wecops yes i think @MerseyPolice still use gang injunctions. saw a tweet about one being issued the other day on #Wirral I think
@snash6414
25 November 2020 22:01
@JoeCaluori @WeCops ???? nice one principle then but adding no real purpose? #WeCops
@WeCops
25 November 2020 22:02
Join us on Wednesday 9th December for a #Wecops chat on Domestic Abuse with @ACLouisaRolfe https://t.co/1Kq9NsYlot
@_amyhurst
25 November 2020 22:02
Lots of food for thought for us on #TCEProgramme in tonight’s #WeCops discussion on county lines https://twitter.com/wecops/status/1331719311099125762
@jacquicotter
25 November 2020 22:02
@mark74brown @WeCops #wecops research by Carr et al on that.
@TheBigHon
25 November 2020 22:02
RT @WeCops: Can we get a big #WeCops Thank You to our hosts, @EmWilliamsCCCU and @JoeCaluori for leading tonights chat on #CountyLines! &…
@kerrimonaghan1
25 November 2020 22:02
@WeCops @JoeCaluori As ever some really interesting stuff! I know the #wecops team have learnt a lot too. Thanks everyone
@gmhales
25 November 2020 22:02
@SuptMarshall @PCRotherham @WeCops That will inevitably extend to local drugs markets in urban areas, gang/group dynamics etc, all involving the likes of grooming and exploitation (incl sexual). Where are the boundaries? #wecops
@ktbg1
25 November 2020 22:02
@WeCops @JoeCaluori Great chat as always! Thanks to the @wecops team in the background and our hosts @JoeCaluori and @EmWilliamsOU #countylines #wecops
@WeCops
25 November 2020 22:03
We're booking in chats for next year now, so if you would like to run one, please get in touch via DM... #WeCops https://t.co/ZQvcsai3iY
@EmWilliamsOU
25 November 2020 22:03
@WeCops @JoeCaluori Thanks everyone who got involved in this - such a complex subject - it would have been ideal to have other partners involved #wecops
@carmenwhittle
25 November 2020 22:03
@PC_AGT @Jamessenior209 @WeCops Maybe put them on a registe almost like a sex offenders register, that would soon take away that badge of honour. At the end of the day they are exploiting children/juveniles. Give them conditions too. #wecops
@Miles_PBH
25 November 2020 22:03
@WeCops #WeCops fund schools properly, mentor back in those kids who are easily influenced, care experienced and trauma exposed, don’t exclude them out.
@coachfizz
25 November 2020 22:03
RT @WeCops: Can we get a big #WeCops Thank You to our hosts, @EmWilliamsCCCU and @JoeCaluori for leading tonights chat on #CountyLines! &…
@McManus_M_
25 November 2020 22:03
RT @WeCops: Join us on Wednesday 9th December for a #Wecops chat on Domestic Abuse with @ACLouisaRolfe https://t.co/1Kq9NsYlot
@jacquicotter
25 November 2020 22:05
RT @PCRotherham: @WeCops As with most of the #WeCops chats, I also feel there should be more importance, funding and resourcing put into Ne…
@Tommy_HR_NPT
25 November 2020 22:05
RT @jqjasonkew: @WeCops Listen to the child, work with them.. humanise the huge machine which is us.. #wecops Ultimately, we need to radica…
@WeCops
25 November 2020 22:05
RT @WeCops: Join us on Wednesday 9th December for a #Wecops chat on Domestic Abuse with @ACLouisaRolfe https://t.co/1Kq9NsYlot
@westieross
25 November 2020 22:06
RT @WeCops: Join us on Wednesday 9th December for a #Wecops chat on Domestic Abuse with @ACLouisaRolfe https://t.co/1Kq9NsYlot
@PCRotherham
25 November 2020 22:07
RT @WeCops: We're booking in chats for next year now, so if you would like to run one, please get in touch via DM... #WeCops https://t.co/Z…
@ktbg1
25 November 2020 22:07
RT @WeCops: Join us on Wednesday 9th December for a #Wecops chat on Domestic Abuse with @ACLouisaRolfe https://t.co/1Kq9NsYlot
@mike200hope
25 November 2020 22:08
@IPA_Gangs @WeCops Something that is likely to get worse with increased demand on Forces #wecops
@cmgray2019
25 November 2020 22:09
RT @WeCops: Join us on Wednesday 9th December for a #Wecops chat on Domestic Abuse with @ACLouisaRolfe https://t.co/1Kq9NsYlot
@JoeCaluori
25 November 2020 22:09
@Adver_TSeaward It seems clear that the cannier OCGs are creating more distance between themselves and dealing bases by changing recruitment and marketing models to a more decentralised franchise model #wecops
@Miles_PBH
25 November 2020 22:09
@PCRotherham @WeCops This???#WeCops and, unseen in the background, exploit data; mobiles, apps, the darkweb, SM, and work with FinTech to follow the money. And care for the kids. Mentor them back into society.
@ktbg1
25 November 2020 22:10
Looking forward to organising this @wecops chat with @ACLouisaRolfe next month! Really topical with the news that one in five crimes reported during lockdown were domestic abuse related #wecops https://twitter.com/wecops/status/1331719813375401987
@ktbg1
25 November 2020 22:10
RT @WeCops: We're booking in chats for next year now, so if you would like to run one, please get in touch via DM... #WeCops https://t.co/Z…
@mark74brown
25 November 2020 22:11
@EmWilliamsOU @WeCops @JoeCaluori Therein lies a problem...mostly police led problem solving and holding the risk...which isn’t uncommon...but once again a great @wecops debate tonight so thank you Emma & hosts/team #wecops
@Michael11861
25 November 2020 22:17
@ktbg1 @WeCops @ACLouisaRolfe The story behind @erin_pizzey who set up the first refuge, is fascinating. #WeCops https://t.co/Z2hdi2nscr
@RezzieJames
25 November 2020 22:17
@NCA_LynneOwens @PCRotherham @WeCops As in I mean it never seems to get the attention that Terrorism does when in reality far more deaths are linked to Organised Crime than Terrorism. Not to mention the endless robberies & burglaries that organised drug supply fuels #wecops
@1871645640A
25 November 2020 22:18
Your phone rings. It’s the Custody Sergeant, one of your colleagues. Sorry mate we have your daughter with us. 30 rocks of crack in her underwear. She’s 15. Older boyfriend done a runner. County Lines in your living room #wecops
@jacquicotter
25 November 2020 22:19
Really great debate tonight on @wecops #wecops on #countylines If you have an interest or are involved in any capacity tackling CL scroll through the debate on the hashtag #wecops. Some really fascinating insights and observations.
@Neighbo57332119
25 November 2020 22:20
@dharford79 @AlveWythallCops @AlveWythallNW @WMerciaPolice @WestMerciaPCC @N_Watch Oh I will , Im just sat here reading through tonight's #wecops & observing ???? #CountyLines #Exploitation https://t.co/mRBxt1fViT
@1871645640A
25 November 2020 22:20
You attend the station. Duty Solicitor pitches up. Daughter rattled and scared. Goes no comment. Tells the brief she’s no grass..RUI...County Lines in your living room #wecops
@GSDvine
25 November 2020 22:22
RT @WeCops: Can we get a big #WeCops Thank You to our hosts, @EmWilliamsCCCU and @JoeCaluori for leading tonights chat on #CountyLines! &…
@ktbg1
25 November 2020 22:24
@Michael11861 @WeCops @ACLouisaRolfe @erin_pizzey Thanks I’ll take a look! #wecops
@JoeCaluori
25 November 2020 22:25
@PCRotherham @WeCops I don't see how a national response to CL can work without a clear role for Neighbourhood police managing local risks - making relationships with care homes, colleges and young people #wecops
@Sally_ann_ward
25 November 2020 22:28
RT @jqjasonkew: @WeCops Listen to the child, work with them.. humanise the huge machine which is us.. #wecops Ultimately, we need to radica…




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