#WeCops - Wednesday 1st December 2021 9pm (GMT Standard Time) Bad Cops & Bystanders

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This chat is guest hosted by @Graham_Goulden

Graham Goulden is a former Scottish Police Officer. His last years before retiring were spent as a Chief Inspector working with the Scottish Violence Reduction Unit. Graham has a passion to engage society as active bystanders helping them be the friends and colleagues they want to be.

Graham works internationally in schools, sports teams, in workplaces, in universities, prisons and other communities engaging groups as active bystanders with a role in the prevention of abuse. He recently became a lead trainer with the US-based ‘Active Bystander in Law Enforcement (ABLE)’ Programme.

A wise man once told me that all police officers are the face of the police service. Whether they are delivering death messages, using powers of arrest, or committing criminal offences an officer represents us all.

When we learn about horrible acts committed by an officer, we often hear the ‘few bad apples’ reference. Yes, this is the case however the term itself leads to an inevitability of the presence of these officers. The term ‘harm doers’ is much more
appropriate and starts to bring the wider organisation into the discussion, as part of a solution.

Like many of you I was angry, shocked, and ashamed when I saw officer Derek Chauvin murder George Floyd on the streets of Minneapolis in 2020. I had the same feeling recently when a serving UK officer was charged and later convicted of kidnap, rape, and murder of a young woman.

In our lives, both inside and outside of work, we sometimes witness attitudes and/or behaviours that we don’t like or agree with. It may be that they clash with our personal values, our organisational values or both.

The default can often be to “ignore” - walk away and remain silent even when it is a work colleague or friend that is involved or impacted. We might not see it as our business or our role to intervene. We might feel that we will be isolated if we did
intervene. As one great leader once said

“In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends”

Do we ever consider the consequences of our inaction? 

What does our silence and inaction say to those involved or impacted?

In policing the word ‘Loyalty’ is ever present. Police officers form a bond of trust. We rely on our colleagues to help us and support us. When faced with danger we run forward knowing that we will have others behind us. Sometimes however this sense of loyalty means we remain silent when faced with problematic behaviours from other officers. We fear isolation from our colleagues.
We wrongly perceive that our colleagues may support an officer’s behaviour. This destructive influence of imaginary peers presents a real problem with good officers remaining silent and the harm doers thinking they are supported.

Active bystander training is nothing new. In the airline industry training has been provided to help junior officers challenge mistakes made by senior flight crew.

Racked by high levels of misconduct and a lack of trust from communities the New Orleans police department introduced peer intervention training in 2014 and saw a reduction in police misconduct and a building of trust from the communities they serve.

Peer intervention isn’t about snitching on your colleagues. It’s about being loyal, critically loyal and in some cases stopping a colleague from losing their job. It is also a way to address mistakes and mental health issues that can lead to
misconduct in the long run.

This discussion aims to discuss reasons why officers often don’t intervene, what can be done to support officers to be active bystanders and provide some further information on how peer intervention can support the police.

Link to the ABLE Programme 





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 #WeCops transcript

 
@WeCops
01 December 2021 21:00
Q1) Who is harmed when we don't have the confidence to challenge each other when we see mistakes, poor behaviour or attitude? This is known as ‘peer intervention’. #WeCops https://t.co/H42Vxvqhb1
@Graham_Goulden
01 December 2021 21:02
This first question aims to look at the harm caused when officers don’t intervene in harmful behaviours they see taking place within their teams #wecops https://twitter.com/WeCops/status/1466150108806979592
@_Danny__S
01 December 2021 21:02
@WeCops It might be to the person who wants to challenge but the doubt or negativity goes through their heads. Will the be believed. How far will it go. Will it impact the career. What will people think. Will there be a cover up! #WeCops
@WecopsCaroline
01 December 2021 21:02
We’re off #WeCops https://twitter.com/wecops/status/1466150108806979592
@dadwithahat1
01 December 2021 21:02
@WeCops Us, colleagues the public and the organisation #WeCops
@Graham_Goulden
01 December 2021 21:03
@_Danny__S @WeCops Great response so the officer seeing the behaviour is harmed. How would you describe this harm? #wecops
@EducateAliens
01 December 2021 21:04
@WeCops Everyone, the person themselves who may not realise or believe themselves above scrutiny, those that witness it ( team or public) #wecops
@Graham_Goulden
01 December 2021 21:04
@dadwithahat1 @WeCops What’s the harm suffered by the public? #wecops
@Graham_Goulden
01 December 2021 21:04
@Michael11861 @WeCops So I’m many ways a police officer is the face of the service. We are all impacted #wecops
@snash6414
01 December 2021 21:04
@WeCops Everybody. Public perception will be negative. The level of service given poor. Gives grounds for a culture of poor behaviour and contempt #WeCops
@EducateAliens
01 December 2021 21:05
@Graham_Goulden @_Danny__S @WeCops Sometimes feeling they are now compromised as they didn’t challenge at early opportunity, #wecops
@dadwithahat1
01 December 2021 21:06
@Graham_Goulden @WeCops When we don’t challenge those mistakes that can impact on service, that poor behaviour can be continued outside towards the public bad attitudes towards victims, witnesses at interactions. The impact can be like a snowball down a hill #WeCops
@snash6414
01 December 2021 21:07
@_Danny__S @WeCops Particularly so when the poor behaviour is from an officer of higher rank #WeCops
@Graham_Goulden
01 December 2021 21:07
@EducateAliens @_Danny__S @WeCops Ok so having to be silent. That run risks of you getting in trouble as well #wecops
@Graham_Goulden
01 December 2021 21:08
@BTPMcEwan @WeCops Great point here so damage to the organisation. Does this show a lack of loyalty to the org if we don't act #Wecops
@WecopsCaroline
01 December 2021 21:09
@WeCops Challenging poor behaviour was drummed into me from Hendon and that was 2004… we recognised back then that harm is done on every level and ulitimatley impacts police legitimacy #WeCops
@woodycrombie
01 December 2021 21:09
@WeCops The Police and the Public. For example, Police Now was a terrible idea but nobody spoke out. #wecops
@Graham_Goulden
01 December 2021 21:10
So yes everyone is harmed - the public, the officer, the org. #Wecops https://twitter.com/snash6414/status/1466151355932979206
@WeCops
01 December 2021 21:11
#WeCops https://twitter.com/anoddyholder1/status/1466152806084222978
@InquisitivePlod
01 December 2021 21:11
@WeCops Attitudes and behaviours, including acquiesce by peers subtlety breeds culture. It is then the perception of this culture that harm the police as a whole #wecops
@ANoddyHolder1
01 December 2021 21:11
@WeCops #wecops
@Graham_Goulden
01 December 2021 21:12
@dadwithahat1 @WeCops An accumulation of behaviours leading to other more extreme behaviours potentially #wecops
@Graham_Goulden
01 December 2021 21:13
@WecopsCaroline @WeCops I remember those days - We will cover some inhibitors to doing this shortly. so we are told in our early days that we should act in these circumstances #wecops
@Graham_Goulden
01 December 2021 21:14
@snash6414 @WeCops Do you think that this lack of trust places officers at risk? #wecops
@DCSuptHenderson
01 December 2021 21:14
@WeCops The whole culture is affected which ripples through everything we do, external and internal behaviour. Culture set through worst behaviour people (leaders / peers) are willing to accept #wecops
@WecopsCaroline
01 December 2021 21:14
@Graham_Goulden @WeCops I remember someone saying something I was uncomfortable with (at Hendon) and thinking I was being set up for an integrity test. It was one of the most memorable parts of my training - absolutely DRUMMED into me! #WeCops
@WeCops
01 December 2021 21:15
Keep these replies coming in ... but don't forget the hashtag #WeCops! https://t.co/VlZlESc1QV
@Graham_Goulden
01 December 2021 21:15
So I’m many ways our perceived loyalty to a colleague can and does do untold damage to our organisation. It reduces public trust and confidence. Also if we don’t act in some cases colleagues could lose their career. Do we need to again look at what loyalty means? #wecops https://twitter.com/wecops/status/1466150108806979592
@Graham_Goulden
01 December 2021 21:15
RT @woodycrombie: @WeCops The Police and the Public. For example, Police Now was a terrible idea but nobody spoke out. #wecops
@dadwithahat1
01 December 2021 21:16
@Graham_Goulden @WeCops Absolutely not always but sometimes and sometimes is one time too many. It’s like pushing the envelope/ line. Then pushing again until it’s drawn by someone if ever. None of us are perfect and it’s being open to being challenged and reflecting not being defensive #WeCops
@Michael11861
01 December 2021 21:16
@Graham_Goulden @WeCops Yes, that officer may be the first officer a member of the public has had any interaction with, and if it goes badly, it's so easy for people to generalise and label all officers as the same. #WeCops
@snash6414
01 December 2021 21:17
@Graham_Goulden @WeCops Absolutely. Reduces our legitimacy which can have detrimental effects. We police by consent. We need the public to have confidence in us #WeCops
@_Danny__S
01 December 2021 21:17
@Graham_Goulden @WeCops Harm can come from not acting and staying silent. The doubt or worry may play on their minds. It’s not psychological but could be. The ‘what if’ syndrome. Do I or don’t I? #weCops
@pc_lawrence
01 December 2021 21:18
@WeCops Q1: Literally Everyone. Unchallenged Behaviour Becomes Normalised Behaviour. It Will Always End Up In A Downward Spiral. #WeCops
@Graham_Goulden
01 December 2021 21:18
@dadwithahat1 @WeCops That’s a great point. Should we all ask ourselves how we would like someone to challenge any mistake we made. For me. In private. As a friend and giving me a chance to apologise #wecops
@snash6414
01 December 2021 21:18
@Graham_Goulden @WeCops I think recent protests in London have evidenced this. When people lose faith in us it leaves officers vulnerable and at risk #WeCops
@EducateAliens
01 December 2021 21:18
@Graham_Goulden @_Danny__S @WeCops This then moves towards what can properly be dealt with as learning opportunity and what needs other interventions, and are those interventions seen as timely and proportionate #wecops
@jo_peake
01 December 2021 21:19
@WecopsCaroline @Graham_Goulden @WeCops I agree Caroline.After all the Police Conduct Regs inc Challenging Appropriately.I accept it’s not always easy to do with your peers/colleagues/senior officers,but policing isn’t easy & we must be seen to uphold the values we seek to encourage within the public we serve #wecops
@WeCops
01 December 2021 21:20
Q2) Despite being expected to intervene Police Officers are as susceptible as anyone else to not acting in certain situations. Why do you think a police officer may struggle to speak to a colleague about poor behaviour, a mistake or concerns about mental health? #WeCops https://t.co/oqdV1HHuwF
@Graham_Goulden
01 December 2021 21:20
@EducateAliens @_Danny__S @WeCops I agree. Remember this isn’t about just being a snitch or being disloyal. Loyalty can be critical loyalty. Telling a colleague what they need to hear rather than what they want to hear. #wecops
@dadwithahat1
01 December 2021 21:20
@Graham_Goulden @WeCops Think it depends on the mistake. Mostly one on one in a balanced way but If it involves a third party who may feel intimidated or upset then considering how we challenge or halt the behaviour in a way that leaves that individual supported #WeCops
@Graham_Goulden
01 December 2021 21:20
@snash6414 @WeCops So intervention within the org will communicate to public that we want to address these issues. #wecops
@daimogssoapbox
01 December 2021 21:21
@WeCops Everybody is harmed and it helps nobody but allow the perpetrators of such behaviour to continue, it needs to be called out sadly ive been called woke pc snowflake etc. Q1 #wecops @WeCops
@Graham_Goulden
01 December 2021 21:22
@dadwithahat1 @WeCops Yes. Some behaviours need more direct responses. But as I say earliest is best but better late than never. Early intervention, you have some control and more opportunities. #wecops
@snash6414
01 December 2021 21:22
@WeCops Worried about becoming ostracised from a team, lack of confidence in their own knowledge / ability. Fear of repercussions. #WeCops
@Michael11861
01 December 2021 21:23
@WeCops More experienced/senior officers and officers of rank will present an extra challenge, as there's a natural hierarchy in the police, so for a subordinate officer/someone with less experience to challenge, is difficult. #WeCops
@InquisitivePlod
01 December 2021 21:23
@WeCops Peer pressure & not wanting to “rock the boat” within a Team - in some roles the Team ethos, trust and belonging is instrumental in getting through the day job particularly front line/firearms. To destroy trust can be dangerous #wecops
@mike200hope
01 December 2021 21:23
@WeCops Because often situations are handled ineffectively by leaders meaning people have no confidence anything will change and therefore they let things go #wecops
@Graham_Goulden
01 December 2021 21:23
Lets be honest here and discuss the inhibitors to intervention. We can learn from decades of social science to support officers. I train with US police using @GeorgetownABLE and the evidence allows officers to learn how to act #wecops https://twitter.com/wecops/status/1466155141715791873
@_Danny__S
01 December 2021 21:23
@Graham_Goulden @EducateAliens @WeCops Sometimes speaking out can do more harm to all involved. Maybe tactical reporting via safe supervisors to the ears that need to hear can do more good. Other ways to deal with issues sometimes. Might be underhand but it depends on the battle. #WeCops
@snash6414
01 December 2021 21:24
@Graham_Goulden @WeCops Potentially. If done right. #WeCops
@EducateAliens
01 December 2021 21:24
@WeCops Self doubt, lack of confidence, perceived power position, there needs to be a safe place or point of contact where they can voice concerns - a trusted person on a team or team leader can fill this role for some =but there needs to be other points of contact #wecops
@Graham_Goulden
01 December 2021 21:24
@dadwithahat1 @WeCops Also a follow up after a successful intervention can be beneficial. Thanking the colleague for being receptive to the comment can really help here #wecops
@ANoddyHolder1
01 December 2021 21:26
@WeCops Q2) firstly the individual/supervisor need to have confidence the force will deal and not have the tables turned I.e. bullying. You need to know that you will backed up at jobs. Isolation from the team. Individual moved and the problem not dealt with #wecops
@Graham_Goulden
01 December 2021 21:26
@mike200hope @WeCops Good point Mike. We need a top down but also a bottom up approach. Intervention needs to be welcomed, even role modelled by leaders but we also need to equip lower ranks. Cliques exist as we know. The #GeorgeFloyd case highlights that dynamic #wecops
@Graham_Goulden
01 December 2021 21:26
@snash6414 @WeCops Fear of safety. Being supported on the job. All painful experiences. #wecops
@Graham_Goulden
01 December 2021 21:27
@Michael11861 @WeCops Spot on. The Stanley Milgramm experiment looks at the power of authority and obedience. Remember hierarchy isn’t just rank in the police #wecops
@daimogssoapbox
01 December 2021 21:27
@WeCops Lack confidence don't want to be seen as interfering with matters within lack awareness of giving & receiving feedback or appropriate support, fear of not being believed marginalised being moved career threatened diminished isolated by others neg culture & sub cultures q2 #wecops
@snash6414
01 December 2021 21:27
@ANoddyHolder1 @WeCops Absolutely this. Not just within the police but I’ve heard many stories recently of supervisors trying to manage people and having the bullying card thrown at them. Are people now too defensive of criticism / negative feedback #WeCops
@pc_lawrence
01 December 2021 21:27
@WeCops Q2: Hierarchical Bullying Cultures, Fear Of Harming Their Personal Well-being At Work & Career Journeys. Everyone I’ve Had Conversations With About This, The Fear Factor & Lack Of Trust Was The Main Driving Factor In Their Silence. #WeCops
@InquisitivePlod
01 December 2021 21:28
@WeCops Also, Senior Leaders can be notorious for over reacting to some circumstances for political/public perception reasons leaving those who report and the subjects of the report feeling unsupported #wecops
@Graham_Goulden
01 December 2021 21:28
@EducateAliens @WeCops In US ranked officers tell their cops “if I am making a mistake” tell me. Use of code words if things are getting heated. Honesty and vulnerability is key #wecops
@HaywireHarris
01 December 2021 21:29
@WeCops I believe there's a trust deficit between forces & officers. Make such disclosure, will you be supported? How will you be supported after potentially alienate yourself from your peer group. Do you want to be that person who walks into the room & everyone stops talking? #wecops
@dadwithahat1
01 December 2021 21:29
@Graham_Goulden @WeCops Like most things it’s about delivery. #WeCops.
@Graham_Goulden
01 December 2021 21:29
What’s out thoughts on peer intervention to address mental@health issues and mistakes. It’s not just about misconduct. In many ways they are linked #wecops https://twitter.com/wecops/status/1466155141715791873
@WecopsCaroline
01 December 2021 21:30
@jo_peake @Graham_Goulden @WeCops Absolutely. Others have commented about having faith in the system and the officers in those departments to understand, recognise and act on it when you do report bad behaviour. #WeCops
@Michael11861
01 December 2021 21:30
@WeCops Humans are very tribal animals and keen to fit into groups, & SGT Rory Miller talks about group dynamics in this excellent book. "It can be deadly if you come in as an outsider to tell the in group, they are wrong." #WeCops https://t.co/sKWVonIHp3
@HaywireHarris
01 December 2021 21:30
@WeCops This is particularly acute if you are very new in service. #wecops
@Graham_Goulden
01 December 2021 21:30
@pc_lawrence @WeCops Self is important. So what can be done to make it ok to intervene. Do we need role models? We know they are there #wecops
@mikelancs79
01 December 2021 21:31
@WeCops The public, colleagues & force. But don’t forget the officer - intervene when behaviour is sub-optimal and they can benefit from L&D. If you don’t, sub-optimal can grow to misconduct & misconduct can grow into gross misconduct - destructive to public, force & officer. #wecops.
@Graham_Goulden
01 December 2021 21:31
@HaywireHarris @WeCops One of the officers ????? involved in the George Floyd case had 4 days police service. #wecops
@daimogssoapbox
01 December 2021 21:31
RT @WeCops: Quick! Grab the kettle and brew up, it's nearly time for tonights #WeCops chat on Bad Cops & Bystanders with @Graham_Goulden…
@WecopsCaroline
01 December 2021 21:32
@Michael11861 @WeCops This is such a good book recommendation- sounds very similar to @silvesmarisa ‘s work - thank you, I’ll add it to the list ?? #WeCops
@Graham_Goulden
01 December 2021 21:32
@daimogssoapbox @WeCops David. Do you think we have an issue with all male groups and a lack of courage to speak out ? A piece written by a friend in the US https://msmagazine.com/2020/06/17/george-floyd-bad-cops-and-bystanders-how-male-dominated-cultures-keep-men-silent/ #wecops
@Graham_Goulden
01 December 2021 21:33
@jo_peake @WecopsCaroline @WeCops Why do we seem to wait in misconduct to happen. Could we intervene earlier? #wecops
@mark74brown
01 December 2021 21:34
@WeCops You can end up becoming a target in various ways…it depends on the situation & individuals involved of course especially within the hierarchy of the service but it can lead to moral injury when these rack up & informal action is as good as formal action in this context #wecops
@Graham_Goulden
01 December 2021 21:34
@EducateAliens @WeCops So a lack of perceived tools to intervene. #wecops
@WeCops
01 December 2021 21:35
We're a little over the halfway point and there are some great discussions being had - just don't forget the hashtag #WeCops https://t.co/wchBskA4d8
@Graham_Goulden
01 December 2021 21:35
@ANoddyHolder1 @WeCops What about the mental health issue. Surely we can include this in the peer intervention discussion? #wecops
@dadwithahat1
01 December 2021 21:35
@WeCops Unsure of how to approach it, the right things to say. Concerned with regards MH they are over stepping or exposing someone’s privacy. With poor behaviour concerns around how it may impact on how others see them or similar #WeCops
@_Danny__S
01 December 2021 21:36
@WeCops Is it challenging or is it bullying? Someone maybe able to hide an error if they claim bullying first as that is the go to defence. New officers don’t get the brews on and are told that is bullying but is it? MH is a can or worms in a separate topic #wecops
@Graham_Goulden
01 December 2021 21:37
We know in male dominated cultures we have what Harvard describes as masculinity contest cultures. They can be destructive and lead to inaction and silence. They poison cultures. They simply need deconstructed. Going back to core values is key #wecops https://twitter.com/graham_goulden/status/1466158375641792515
@ANoddyHolder1
01 December 2021 21:37
@WeCops I think there is still fear of being labelled due to mental health. I’ve reached out in the past for a head MOT but we need to be confident to say that! #wecops
@jo_peake
01 December 2021 21:37
@WeCops Sometimes it’s challenge around how someone receives feedback.Should we challenge behaviour,reasons behind the mistake & subject of MH instead of individualising behaviour?This avoids ppl “taking it personally” but sometimes does need direct action towards an individual #wecops
@InquisitivePlod
01 December 2021 21:39
@Graham_Goulden I would like to think, rightly or wrongly, that officers are more likely to intervene with regard to concern for a colleagues MH than they are to challenge some behaviours. I do think this is an area that has improved massively in my 18yrs #wecops
@Graham_Goulden
01 December 2021 21:39
@dadwithahat1 @WeCops So could training support this. Within @GeorgetownABLE we help officers develop narrative to speak to colleagues but also tools to stop harm 3 D’s Direct, distract delegate #wecops
@WeCops
01 December 2021 21:40
Q3) In the US much success has been evidenced since the introduction of peer intervention in New Orleans and nationwide in the wake of George Floyd murder. What would the benefits be of UK policing introducing a peer intervention programme? #WeCops https://t.co/B0oGQWdbwy
@ANoddyHolder1
01 December 2021 21:40
@Graham_Goulden @WeCops We need to and maybe some issues should trigger a mandatory occupational health referral. #wecops
@Graham_Goulden
01 December 2021 21:41
@daimogssoapbox @WeCops It impacts across the org but the male issue is key. Gender plays out here and can stop challenge. Good news is we know we have moral rebels it’s the silent majority we need to target #wecops https://t.co/chDd5tG2TW
@EmWilliamsOU
01 December 2021 21:41
@Graham_Goulden @ANoddyHolder1 @WeCops I think it depends on people’s willingness to discuss it surely. In some roles fear of being taken off their job / placing more pressure on their team may inhibit the truth? #wecops
@dadwithahat1
01 December 2021 21:42
@Graham_Goulden @WeCops @GeorgetownABLE Yes. I think how you deliver it is important in terms of buy in or seeing tangible benefits. I’m not sure frameworking it in a ncalt type package would be good. Like most things cops buy in when they see how it helps day to day. #WeCops
@EducateAliens
01 December 2021 21:43
@WeCops Or needs to be normalised as essential to organisational values…that will need a multi pronged programme to build confidence….leading to more positive developmental and trusted practices #wecops
@Graham_Goulden
01 December 2021 21:44
@daimogssoapbox @WeCops Would be good to connect. Been delivering bystander work for last 11 years. The third party presents many opportunities. Check out the work of friend @jacksontkatz who taught me about this work. His gendered focus is needed https://www.jacksonkatz.com/ #wecops
@pc_lawrence
01 December 2021 21:44
@Graham_Goulden @WeCops Q2: I Say It Like It Is, I Never Typically Fall Into Line & Regularly Challenge The Status Quo/Stick Up For All Folk. It’s A Leadership Responsibility To Set The Tone & Support Those Who Support Others. It’s A Risk, But The Right Thing To Do. #WeCops
@Michael11861
01 December 2021 21:45
@WeCops Some of the feedback from the last question is that people don't know how to act, so training would rectify this, and help to create a culture where peer intervention is the norm #WeCops
@Graham_Goulden
01 December 2021 21:45
@EmWilliamsOU @ANoddyHolder1 @WeCops Again that’s a fear. For me it’s about spotting things and speaking to each other. If I’m not looking out for you whos looking out for me. Again suggests a wider culture shift is needed to avoid these feelings #wecops
@EmWilliamsOU
01 December 2021 21:45
@dadwithahat1 @Graham_Goulden @WeCops @GeorgetownABLE We have reflective peer to peer working in Project Bluestone for purposes of welfare. Accumulative impact can be reduced through this style of support. I’m policing the intervention often comes too late when burnout has hit #wecops
@pc_lawrence
01 December 2021 21:45
@threaps @WeCops Q1: Most Poor MH I’ve Encountered Has Been Caused By Internal Employment Factors. ?? #WeCops
@Graham_Goulden
01 December 2021 21:46
@WeCops I’m knackered. Some great views and. Real sense that without peer intervention great harm is being done to policing. #wecops
@HaywireHarris
01 December 2021 21:46
@WeCops Other organisations have been using this approach for decades. The airline industry for example. The difference I would suggest, is that they have a learning culture towards mistakes. Where as forces/IOPC have a 'firing squad' mentality - perception anyway. #wecops
@InquisitivePlod
01 December 2021 21:46
@pc_lawrence @threaps @WeCops Absolutely this!! #wecops
@ANoddyHolder1
01 December 2021 21:47
@jo_peake @snash6414 @WeCops Camps can be very well established and a new broom coming in is ineffective due to the teams “hierarchy” which undermines the rank structure. #wecops
@daimogssoapbox
01 December 2021 21:47
@WeCops #learning #education #development & change behaviour single loop #learning only gets knowledge & maybe some understanding double loop #learning is the change behaviour thats needed a blend needed with peer intervention the big chunk in that blend q3 #wecops @WeCops
@dadwithahat1
01 December 2021 21:47
@EmWilliamsOU @Graham_Goulden @WeCops @GeorgetownABLE I think police officers/ those in policing arena are good at hiding their problems during the stages when early intervention could help #WeCops.
@Graham_Goulden
01 December 2021 21:47
@threaps @BTPMcEwan @WeCops So passive bystanders leads to a culture without trust. Leads to productivity and other issues don’t you think #wecops
@mark74brown
01 December 2021 21:47
@EmWilliamsOU @Graham_Goulden @ANoddyHolder1 @WeCops Agreed & I think it’s the same conundrum for those exp MH issues that don’t want to speak up or get help b’cos it can be a career blocker or even a job loser in the extreme…for a ‘colleague’ to raise concerns with or without consent could ruin someone’s career/life #wecops
@ProfPaulTaylor
01 December 2021 21:48
@Graham_Goulden @daimogssoapbox @WeCops @jacksontkatz There's great UK expertise in bystanders who we ought to draw into our understanding and R&D here -- @ProfMarkLevine to name just one. #wecops
@pc_lawrence
01 December 2021 21:48
@threaps @WeCops Q1: Sadly True. However I Constantly Look To Put It Right. Again, Right Thing To Do. #WeCops
@jo_peake
01 December 2021 21:48
@WeCops If successful,I can see positive cultural changes within policing & improved confidence at all ranks to challenge appropriately as per Police Regs.If we can prevent inappropriate behaviour it improves policing relations with the public & prevents organisational misconduct #wecops
@Graham_Goulden
01 December 2021 21:49
@WeCops In the first year of the EPIC programme they reduced misconduct and built trust. Research suggested that even having the training changed attitudes and forced self reflection. Public were also invited to learn more about the programme #wecops
@_Danny__S
01 December 2021 21:49
@WeCops The issue is the legal system. The US show and release videos and footage of incidents to be transparent and then the burden of proof is applied. UK we hide behind sub judice rules. By the time it’s shown is years down the line. Comparing is dangerous #WeCops
@mike200hope
01 December 2021 21:49
@HaywireHarris @WeCops Agree IOPC is definitely an issue which is not helpful in encouraging a culture of learning from mistakes. A blame culture still persists #wecops
@HaywireHarris
01 December 2021 21:50
@WeCops If we developed a learning culture - which we are very far from, this would immediately empower officers to challenge in this context and not one where your challenge will "screw your team mate over" #wecops
@Graham_Goulden
01 December 2021 21:50
@HaywireHarris @WeCops Yes peer intervention used in airline industry and in operating theatres to help people address hierarchies. Again a need for wider police culture change. #wecops
@Graham_Goulden
01 December 2021 21:51
@Michael11861 @WeCops Yes training would build confidence in using tools but also we would help officers see that more often than not we feel the same #wecops
@ANoddyHolder1
01 December 2021 21:52
@WeCops Q3) to be impactive resolutions need to be quick and we can’t have lengthy investigations which would undermine the problem - restorative justice approach. #wecops
@pc_lawrence
01 December 2021 21:53
@NormanBrennan @WeCops It’s A Systemic Problem Norm, What We Recruit Is Likely To Mirror What We Are. We Need Urgent Reform. I Love Policing, I Really Genuinely Do, But I Thoroughly Detest The Culture, Always Have Done, & I Make No Secret About It. Literally Everything I Do Is To Change It. #WeCops
@mark74brown
01 December 2021 21:53
@WeCops The benefits would be as good as the efficacy/delivery of peer intervention progs & how they are culturally absorbed into the service & individual forces…difficult to predict the effectiveness without actually trying it…does the service as a whole want it is one Q? #wecops
@Graham_Goulden
01 December 2021 21:53
@jo_peake @WeCops Even the presence of these conversations has shaped culture for the better. Active bystanders need to be part of any culture transformation. The response tonight shows that is correct also #wecops
@WeCops
01 December 2021 21:54
#WeCops https://twitter.com/jane_upson/status/1466163442331660295
@WeCops
01 December 2021 21:55
Final few minutes of tonight's chat and one final reminder... ?? DON'T ?? FORGET ??THE ?? HASHTAG ?? #WeCops - Thank you ?? https://t.co/I9OpMsF70z
@Graham_Goulden
01 December 2021 21:55
@_Danny__S @WeCops It’s not about comparing to US incidents it’s more about how peer intervention has positive impact. It’s been used in Australian military to address sexism and other issues. Evidence around bystander approaches is in abundance. #wecops
@jo_peake
01 December 2021 21:55
@WeCops Make it the norm and acceptable,but barriers discussed in Q2 need to be broken down to create that positive culture rather than challenging poor behaviour being seen as “not my responsibility”.“The standard you walk past is the standard you accept” David Morrison #wecops
@ANoddyHolder1
01 December 2021 21:55
@WeCops I also think forces need to establish “safe zones” to discuss issues that people don’t fully understand. I would suggest this needs to be chaired by a subject matter expert in order to share learning #wecops
@Graham_Goulden
01 December 2021 21:57
@ProfPaulTaylor @daimogssoapbox @WeCops @jacksontkatz @ProfMarkLevine Yes we have good knowledge here but there’s also a need to identify the right people to deliver this training. I work with a cadre of retired law enforcement and FBI officers delivering the @GeorgetownABLE programme supported by psychologists #wecops
@pc_lawrence
01 December 2021 21:58
Q3: I Just Don’t Have Long Enough To Answer This. It Needs To Happen. #WeCops https://twitter.com/wecops/status/1466160174901694469
@_Danny__S
01 December 2021 21:58
@Graham_Goulden @WeCops The point is that evidence still follows the same principles whether internal or public so the impact is that in the UK a fair trial has to happen. Which takes time, alienation, isolation, trust, fear etc. it’s the process that needs to change #WeCops
@EmWilliamsOU
01 December 2021 21:58
@Graham_Goulden @ANoddyHolder1 @WeCops It needs to be a culture that is trauma informed. #wecops
@Graham_Goulden
01 December 2021 21:59
@_Danny__S @WeCops It is and the ability to act before we get to a criminal or misconduct issue. Far too often intervention takes place too late. At least it has happened but damage is done #wecops
@WeCops
01 December 2021 21:59
#WeCops https://twitter.com/cijglansfield/status/1466164845296996353
@Graham_Goulden
01 December 2021 21:59
@ANoddyHolder1 @WeCops Define a subject matter expert? #wecops
@WeCops
01 December 2021 22:00
Tonight's #WeCops has come to a close, a big thank you to tonight's guest host @Graham_Goulden and as ever a massive thank you to everyone who took part in this chat! Stay tunes for the chat stats! https://t.co/HNQnpHKsIg




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